Tableware is as important as food or sake. It's crucial to see the faces behind the makers.
"UTSUWA KIRYO" started as a journey exploring food and tableware.
In the second installment of this tableware journey, we met with chefs who use the tableware, discussing their thoughts on tableware and how they select it.
Sakai Shokai is a Japanese kappo restaurant slightly away from the hustle and bustle of Shibuya. It opened in April 2018, offering Japanese cuisine made with ingredients from the owner’s hometown of Kyushu, paired with carefully selected natural wines and sake that match the food. The atmosphere is cozy, with close interaction between customers and staff.
This time, we spoke with Hideaki Sakai, the representative of Sakai Shokai, about how he interacts with tableware, which enhances the presence of the dishes. The interviewer was Naoyuki Honda, an artist who is friends with Sakai. Honda, who has developed an interest in tableware after attending sushi school, asked about the relationship between food and tableware.
Collecting tableware for future use before opening my own restaurant
Honda: First, could you tell us about your initial encounter with tableware?
Sakai: When I was training at a restaurant called "Namikibashi Nakamura," I became interested in tableware like Shino-yaki and Shigaraki-yaki, which were used in the restaurant. I started visiting a gallery near my home that handled tableware, and gradually formed my own tastes while collecting pieces one at a time, within my budget.
Honda: Were you buying them for personal use, not for the restaurant?
Sakai: I was collecting them with the intention of using them after opening my own restaurant. I didn’t buy sets of the same tableware but built my style by collecting different pieces that matched my taste. I love tableware itself, but I also have a deep appreciation for the people who make it. When it comes to antiques, who you buy from is very important as well. I often spend hours talking with gallery owners and learning new ways to use the tableware from them.
Honda: So it’s not just about the appearance of the tableware, but also the story behind who made it and who selected it.
Sakai: To me, tableware is like food or sake—it’s important to use things where you can see the faces of the people who made them. The same goes for tableware; I value the people who are involved in making it.
Honda: I didn’t know that chefs start collecting dishware even before becoming independent.
Sakai: Many people value dishware. For example, Kunisue from our ‘SHIZEN’ group started collecting his favorite pieces in sets of five from the age of 20. Now he has around 1200 pieces and brought all of them with him when he started ‘SHIZEN’.
Honda: That’s impressive. Having a large collection of dishware can also be a selling point for a restaurant. It’s rare to find someone with such a collection, and customers might enjoy seeing it.
Visiting favorite galleries and artists’ exhibitions to purchase dishware
Honda: What changes occur when you start collecting dishware you like?
Sakai: When I started working at “Namikibashi Nakamura,” I knew nothing about dishware. There were times when the owner, Teiji Nakamura, told me that the dish I chose wasn’t right, but I didn’t understand why. However, once I started collecting dishware myself, I began to sense which dish fits which type of food and portion. Since dishware and food are intertwined, the quality of the food can be elevated by the dishware. This can also affect the type of customers and the pricing of the restaurant.
Honda: It’s similar to how the appearance of a restaurant affects its food and pricing. However, some places don’t pay attention to their dishware.
Sakai: When you see dishware photos on Instagram, it’s hard to tell if they are renowned pieces at first glance, but when the dishware fits well with the food, it looks more appetizing. Dishware can also reflect the quality of a restaurant.
Honda: For those serving food, does using preferred dishware rather than just any dishware make you more confident in serving the dishes?
Sakai: I believe appearance is important for food. The visual quality affects the restaurant's pricing and can influence changes in customer demographics.
Honda: Has the clientele at Sakai Shōkai changed over the years from the early days to now
Sakai: Recently, we’ve had many new customers who say, "I’ve always wanted to come here," and we’re seeing an increase in younger and international customers. Even among younger people, many are quite knowledgeable about dishware, alcohol, and ingredients. Talking with them inspires me and is quite interesting. Some international customers are more knowledgeable about Japanese sake than Japanese people. They often come with a “I want to learn” attitude and end up teaching us something during their visit.
Honda: Do you also cater to English speakers?
Sakai: We’re all learning and accommodating in English, and our reservation system supports English as well. There are days when about half of our customers are from overseas.
Honda: That’s impressive. By the way, when choosing dishware, do you typically order based on your preferences, like specifying “I want something like this”?
Sakai: Some chefs do order specific shapes and sizes, but I usually select dishware by visiting galleries and exhibitions.
Honda: From your favorite artists?
Sakai: In Tokyo, there’s an exhibition happening somewhere every week, so I try to attend as many as possible. If the artist is present, I can talk with them without having to visit the production area. I have about four familiar galleries, but I also frequently visit new galleries.
Honda: How do you gather information about exhibitions?
Sakai: I mostly get information from Instagram. By following galleries I like, I can stay updated on their exhibitions. When there’s an exhibition by a famous artist, I sometimes visit department stores like Isetan or Takashimaya.
Honda: Do you sometimes buy dishware based on recommendations?
Sakai: Recently, since my preferences are quite clear, I don’t buy based on recommendations anymore, but I used to when I was starting out.
Honda: Do your preferences start with the dishware's origin?
Sakai: It can be based on origin, the artist, or even antiques. I think it’s best to prioritize your personal taste and usability first. Also, visiting kiln workshops directly is the best way to learn. You can understand the type of kiln they use, how they make and fire the dishware, and see the differences. However, since kiln owners may not provide basic knowledge, it’s a good idea to have some background information before visiting.
Honda: Without knowledge, it can be disrespectful to the kiln owners. Also, it must be tough to decide on a price range for dishware. Like wine, if you get too into it, you might end up buying more than you can store (laughs). Does that happen with dishware too?
Sakai: As a store, I purchase dishware as an expense, but there is a wide range of prices for dishware. For example, dishware made by a Living National Treasure can be very expensive, though I don’t own any myself.
Honda: Do you balance the price range of dishware with the average price per dish or the store’s average spend per customer?
Sakai: I haven’t thought much about balancing price. If I find something I like, I tend to buy it without worrying too much about the cost, though I do consult with my accountant.
Finding a preferred gallery is a good starting point for learning about dishware
Honda: When someone who doesn’t know much about dishware wants to start collecting, they might not know what to buy. What’s the best way to study and learn?
Sakai: I think collecting dishware that you personally like is also a good way to learn. It can be a bit costly, but as you purchase more, your preferences will become clearer.
I recommend finding a gallery that matches your taste. If you like the sense of the person selecting the items, you’ll encounter various artists. Galleries usually handle dishware in similar price ranges, so it’s also important that it fits your budget.
Honda: Knowing the price range is helpful. How many types or pieces of dishware do restaurants typically stock?
Sakai: It’s good to have the number of pieces that matches the most common unit of customers. For our restaurant, we often have 2-3 guests, and we have tables for 4, so having sets of 4 works well. However, dishware traditionally comes in sets of 5, so we often buy 4-5 pieces. In terms of variety, we purchase based on what kind of dishware is suitable for different seasons and dishes.
Honda: So without a clear image, buying might not be useful?
Sakai: Some people buy dishware first without knowing what they’ll use it for, but I think that’s a bit wasteful.
Honda: That means it might end up not being used.
Sakai: At our restaurant, we generally have a set menu and portion sizes, so we select dishware with a specific image in mind, like wanting to serve spring rolls on a particular dish for the next menu change. We often discuss with the staff about which dishware to use for the next dish.
Honda: You also discuss dishware with your staff.
Sakai: When we purchase new dishware, we always discuss where it’s from and which artist made it. Sometimes, the artist whose dishware we carry comes to our restaurant when they have an exhibition in Tokyo, or our staff might visit the exhibition and buy pieces for themselves or their families.
Honda: Your restaurant sounds wonderful. It seems like the staff can learn a lot too.
Sakai: At our restaurant, not only do we have dishware artists visit, but also sake breweries and ingredient producers. I think it's a rare experience that you can’t easily find at other places.
For izakayas and bistros, if they start spending a little on dishware each month, I think it could lead to various changes.
Dishes that are no longer used for customers can also be repurposed in the kitchen
Honda: When using specialized dishware, do you face any issues with operations or service?
Sakai: We have a washing machine, but delicate and easily breakable dishware, like thin dishes and lacquerware, are washed by hand. Everything with a shape will eventually break, and when it does, we repair it with kintsugi and continue using it.
Honda: Does this mean that staff members also become more careful when washing?
Sakai: Since our focus is on à la carte dishes, a variety of plate sizes come back to us, so we are especially careful when washing them.
Honda: I think preferences for dishware gradually change, but what do you do with the dishes that are no longer used?
Sakai: We store them in a warehouse. In places like ryotei (traditional Japanese restaurants) or Japanese cuisine establishments, they change the dishware according to the season, so I’ve heard they have dedicated warehouses for dishware.
Dishware that is no longer used for serving customers might be repurposed in the kitchen, for example, to hold sudachi or perilla leaves. Additionally, using a bowl-like dish instead of a regular bowl for coating items with cornstarch can change the impression of the presentation. I sometimes see izakayas using Tupperware for storing ingredients, but it can give off a homey feeling, which seems a bit wasteful.
Honda: It does give a casual impression.
Sakai: Exactly. Especially in open kitchen restaurants, it would be good to be particular about the containers used for ingredients. When I dine at various restaurants, I notice that those offering courses tend to keep their kitchens clean.
Honda: If the kitchen is open, you need to be particular about it. Seeing plastic wrap lined up at a sushi counter makes me wonder if everything is okay.
Sakai: At our place, we keep the wrap in a case.
Honda: So you only replace the contents. Finally, if Hide (Sakai-san) has a favorite piece of dishware, I’d love to see it.
Sakai: I don’t have many pieces that are too flashy; I prefer something a bit cute. This dish is Kutani ware made by a female artist named Yamamoto. Kutani ware is usually produced in a division of labor, where one person makes the molds and another does the painting. However, Yamamoto-san handles all the processes herself. I often use this dish for small tempura, but it is versatile and easy to use for other dishes as well.
Honda: I’ve been learning sushi recently, so I want to study dishware too.
Sakai: For sushi, it seems like having a stand would be a good start. If you’re also making appetizers, you’ll need dishware for those as well. Start by looking at dishware through the lens of your favorite restaurants and then layer in your own preferences. Gradually, you’ll understand your own tastes better.
Honda: You won’t know until you try buying it yourself. Thank you for today.
Sakai Shokai
Interviewer: Naoyuki Honda
Representative Director of Leverage Consulting Inc.
Based in Hawaii and Tokyo, he invests in and supports venture companies in Japan and the US. He spends 5 months a year in Hawaii, 3 months in Tokyo, 2 months in regional Japan, and 2 months traveling through Europe, Oceania, and Asia. He leads a lifestyle without boundaries between work and play, having visited over 220 cities in 62 countries to date.
He explores food from street vendors and B-grade to Michelin-starred restaurants daily. He also produces events such as the Dream Dusk collaboration dinners with renowned chefs, the Inspire by Relux luxury ryokan experiences, and the Edo-mae Evolution Symposium sponsored by Tokyo Metropolitan Government. He is also listed as a "Gourmet Celebrity" on Tabelog.
His books include the Leverage series, "150 Secret Restaurants Top Chefs Frequent," "Why Japanese Chefs Can Compete Globally," "Originality: The Era of Trying to Be Loved by Everyone is Over," and "Hawaii's Best Restaurants." His works have surpassed 3 million copies in total, and translations are available in Korea, Taiwan, Hong Kong, China, and Thailand.
Graduated from the Japan Sushi Leading Academy and Tokyo Sushi Academy
Master of Business Administration (MBA) from Thunderbird School of Global Management
Graduated from Meiji University, Faculty of Commerce, Department of Industrial Management
(Certified Sommelier by the Japan Sommelier Association)
Instructor at Academy du Vin
Adjunct Lecturer at Meiji University and Sophia University
Selection Committee Member for The Japan Times Destination Restaurants
Photography: Yohei Murakami
Interview: Naoyuki Honda, Utsuwa Omusubi
Text: Kana Kubo